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Top 10 NBA Shooting Guards 2009-2010
Written by boyd   
Monday, 09 November 2009 07:55

Continuing my Top 10 theme, here is my opinion on the Top 10 Shooting Guards for the 2009-2010 season. Unlike the point guard position, which is full of young, up-and-coming stars of the future, it seems like a good portion of the talented 2 guards in the league are aging, already established or even starting to decline players.

10. Ray Allen, Celtics:  Ray is certainly in decline overall as a player, but he is still a deadly outside shooter and will one day, barring injury, become the all time leader in 3 point field goals made.  His stats will fall even further this year, as the Celtics are even deeper than they were the last two years, but unlike some other players on this list who's stats are inflated by being the main stars on their team, Ray has to contend with KG and Paul Pierce for shots.  I think he could still score in the low 20's for an average or bad team without breaking much of a sweat.  Although Leandro Barbosa and Jason Terry will push him for production stats, Ray is a Champion and gets the edge due to his clutch play that will pay off for the C's this season.

9. Ben Gordon, Pistons: During last season's playoff series against Boston, I was certain that Gordon had made a pact with Satan, and now, watching his results in Detroit thus far, I'm only more sure that he and the Dark Lord are in cahoots.  Gordon is an offensive force, especially when he gets hot.  The only problem is, all Ben can do is score.  He can't rebound, turns the ball over a lot for a guy who is a jump shooter and can't pass, and is an average defender on a good day.  We'll see if he's worth the 55 million Detriot shelled out for him, although he is superior to Rip Hamilton in my book. 

8. Vince Carter, Magic: As much as everybody hates Vince Carter, and they do, you have to admit, he's pretty damn good.  He will easily replace Hedo Turkoglu in Orlando if he can get healthy, as he is a better scorer, had a better true point rating than Hedo, is a better shooter, and a better defender.  He's clearly not the athlete he once was, but he will still rise up and throw a dunk down over your ass if you get lazy on him.  We'll see if being on a good team will change his legacy of being a lazy quitter.  Even if it does, I will probably still hate him.

7. Kevin Martin, Kings: Martin has been so underrated in the past he is now slightly overrated.  Martin, like Ben Gordon, really only has one NBA specialty, albeit a very important one: Scoring.  K-Mart can score from all over, is a good outside shooter despite having a very ugly shot, and is quite adept at getting to the line.  Still, one has to wonder if he looks better because he's on such a crappy team, or if he would be even better with improved talent around him. Also, he can't guard anyone and is a horrible passer.  Oh, and he's kind of a weenie when it comes to durability.  Did I mention he can score?

6. Andre Iguodala, 76ers: Now, this guy is underrated.  First of all, he is among the elite defenders at his position, without question.  He consistently guards the opposition's best scorer, be it a point, 2 or 3 or even a small 4.  The new AI is a tremendous offensive player as well, especially when he uses his athleticism to get to the basket.  He is a good passer and rebounder for his position. He really only has one weakness as a player that I see, and that is shooting. He is not a good outside shooter, or free throw shooter, but his 68.4 percent in the immediate basket area -- that's not a typo -- is a phenomenal figure for a 6-6 wing and the third-best of any player with at least 200 attempts. Unfortunately, like many skilled athletes, he seems to fall in love with his jumper more than he should.  Iguodala is a box score stuffer, and I like those kinds of players. 

5. Manu Ginobili, Spurs: In seasons past, I would have had Manu in the top 3, for sure.  When he plays, he can be considered a top 3 2-guard in the league, along with D-Wade and Kobe Bryant, but as he gets older and his aggressive style continues, he just can't seem to stay healthy for any extended period of time.  Manu can do it all, shooting well from deep, getting to the hole at will, getting and making a ton of free throws, being a decent passer and rebounder, and a good team defender, but he's only played in 82% of his teams games for his career, 72% in the last 3 years.  On top of that, he has really hurt the team come playoff time, where he has been hurt and inconsistent the past 2 playoffs, which is a far cry from the player who helped the Spurs to several NBA championships. Also, he needs the Ron Popiel spray-on hair to cover his bald spot. 

4. Joe Johnson, Hawks: Is this pick going to be my Rajon Rondo of Shooting Guards?  Look, offensively, Johnson is on par with the other guys behind him on this list.  He is a good scorer, although not on the level of Gordon, Carter or Martin.  He is a good passer, with a better pure point rating than many of the league's point guards. He is a solid rebounder.  He is a very talented defender.  Most of all, he's a good leader and extremely durable.  He's averaged around 40 minutes the last 6 seasons, and has played all 82 games in 5 of his 7 seasons.  So, he may not be the most flashy player, but he can do it all and you can count on him. 

3. Brandon Roy, Blazers: The gap between the 3 best shooting guards and the rest of the pack is significant. Portland fans are going to sit there and tell you that Roy is an MVP candidate and you know what?  They are wrong.  Now, Roy is an excellent player, maybe even a top 10 player in the league, but he isn't winning an MVP any time soon, or probably ever.  The problem is, I can't really put my finger on why.  Roy is a great hybrid guard who can play the point better than most points, and he is a terrific scorer. He shoots well from 3, has a good midrange game, and can get to the basket and finish or draw fouls at an elite level.  He is a solid rebounder and an underrated and improving defender.  All that being said, there is just something missing in his game when I watch him.  Can someone else give an opinion on that, or am I crazy? 

2. Kobe Bryant,Lakers: No one wants to say it because he led his stacked team to a championship last year, but Kobe is slowing down.  The numbers bear it out, the eye test bears it out.  That being said, he's Kobe Freaking Bryant.  He remains a dynamite scorer, although his free throw attempts are on the decline, never a good sign for an older player.  Bryant is shooting less threes, which is good since he is an average 3 point shooter.  Kobe has the most versatile array of offensive moves since Michael Jordan, and keeps himself in great shape, despite the amount of games he has played.  Kobe is a good ball handler, a good passer and a very solid defender who picks his spots and really seems to buckle down at the end of games.  On top of this, Kobe is one of the best clutch players the league has ever seen. I know this kind of sounds negative, but really, I have a ton of respect for Kobe.  I can't put him at number one because I think that if you remove Kobe from the Lakers and trade him for D-Wade, I think the Lakers win 70 games and the championship, but the Heat are the same or worse with Kobe. 

1. Dwayne Wade, Heat: Despite the idiotic "Fall seven times, get up 8" slogan, which made sense only to the truly retarded, Wade is just an animal on the court, and is in the conversation for the best player in the league.  Wade is basically unstoppable in the pick-and-roll game, because no matter how you decide to defend him, you lose.  Go under the screen, and he is a good enough Dwayne Wademidrange shooter to hurt you.  Try to double him, and he is a good and willing passer.  Oh, and either way, he's such a good ball handler that no matter what you choose, he can probably just drive past you and get a good shot around the basket.  Add to that the fact that if you breathe on him the referees call a foul, and you pretty much better get used to seeing him kill your team.  Luckily, his teammates are mostly garbage.  Now, add to this the fact that Wade is the best defender at the 2 (please, don't say Kobe, it ain't even close) and you see why I say he is in the best player on the planet discussion.  Wade delivered an amazing season at the defensive end last year, leading all shooting guards in blocks per minute and ranking third in steals. I mean, Wade blocked 1.3 shots per game and ranked 16th in the entire league. He's 6-4. On a per-minute basis he outblocked more than three-quarters of the league's power forwards, and nobody under 6-7 came within screaming distance of his rate.

PS:

An excellent NBA Blog, Bust A Bucket has begun a list of Top 10 by position as well.  Click the link for a good read, starting with the Power Forwad position. 

Comments (76)Add Comment
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written by Sheed, November 09, 2009
I like BRoy at 3, seems generous but when you look at the options, it's all good.

Also, I agree about his MVP status, it would take LeBron and Kobe type players to be injured or out for that to happen.
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written by CVD2312, November 09, 2009
No way Wade is better than Kobe. Come on
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written by boyd33, November 09, 2009
CVD2312

Feel free to explain your opinion.
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written by Jay in IE, November 09, 2009
Your whole basis for Kobe being in "decline" has been disproven this year to this point. His free throws are up, his threes down, and he is dominating opponents within the team's scheme. Other players are involved and getting points because of his dominance on the box. It is a short sample of games, but to this point in the season Kobe is not only the best SG, but the best player period. It's a long season, and this could change, but maybe you wrote this before the season began? Are you paying attention?
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written by Dmills, November 09, 2009
I disagree about switching Wade for Kobe. This is not NBA 2k10. You can't just plug and play guy's into any team and expect X result. And furthermore Kobe has led some awful teams into the playoffs, in the WESTERN conference no less.
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written by Dmills, November 09, 2009
Oh and by the way, Kobe is many times the man defender that Wade is. It's not even close. Ask Lebron about it.
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written by Boyd33, November 09, 2009
No, I wrote this yesterday. I understand that Kobe is off to a tremendous start, but I just don't think he'll keep it up. That's the predictive part of the post. I would love to be wrong, but doubt I will be.

And I don't think kobe is many times the man defender Wade is. In fact, I think it is the other way around.
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written by Dmills, November 09, 2009
I'll give you off the ball, but you believe that Dwade is a superior on ball man defender then Bean?
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written by Boyd33, November 09, 2009
I guess it depends. If it is one possession for everything-I'd probably take Bryant.

But over the course of a game/season, I think Wade is the more capable defender in every aspect, in large part due to his youth.
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written by Jang, November 09, 2009
I'd like to know what you're basing these presumptions on, with regards to Wade being a better man defender than Kobe? Please do not state statistics as your rebuttal because great notable man/perimeter defenders such as Michael Cooper, Joe Dumars, Bruce Bowen, Doug Christie, Tayshaun Prince, etc. did not have great stats to show for their superior perimeter defensive abilities.

Coaches, who are vastly knowledgeble in the field of basketball (moreso than you and I will ever know), write-in the ballots for the all-defensive team. Last time I checked, Kobe was written in all but one year over Wade.
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written by Jang, November 09, 2009
I'd also like to mention that the only statistical category that Wade currently has over Kobe are blocks and assists...and that includes fg%, 3pt%, and ft%. Now who should be number 1 (please don't say Wade, it ain't even close)? smilies/wink.gif
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written by ..., November 09, 2009
Kobe's D is better or at the very least about the same as Wade's. Kobe is 2nd in the league in steals so far, and should stay at the top for the season. He is also averaging more rebounds than Wade, but that will go down as Gasol and Bynum get back. Still shows you a sample of what he is capable of. That's just on the defensive end. Kobe's offense is also better or the very least equal than Wade's. We have season all season long what he is doing to people dont in the post. He is unstoppable down there. Doubt any guard can he come close to what he does down there. Kobe's Mid-range game is better. Kobe's 3-point game better. Only thing Wade might be better at is driving and getting fouls. But even Kobe is doing that this year. He has 1 less attempt than Wade, and is shooting a better percentage, and which he does every year. Wade would not fit into the triangle as well as Kobe does. MJ, Magic and Kobe are the only two guards ever that could dominate from the triangle. They could all operate at in the post and give the dominant post player the triangle needs. Wade's post up game isn't anywhere close to Kobe's. In the end, Kobe is still the best guard in the league, and if it wasn't for the level of talent needed to win a championship nowadays, he would still be tearing up every guard out there. Even Wade said Kobe was still the best!!!
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written by ..., November 09, 2009
no edit button? lol
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written by Jay in IE, November 09, 2009
Well if you wrote this yesterday, I think you are ignoring facts. Also, Kobe's D has been better than Wade's, and is at least equal to this point. His offense is miles ahead of anyone else in the league today, and equal or better than anyone who has ever played. I like Wade a lot, don't get me wrong, but just disagree with this opinion piece.
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written by CVD2312, November 09, 2009
Look, I hate Kobe as much as anyone. I'm a Blazer fan. But as much as I hate to say it, Kobe is most likely one of the top-10 best players of all-time. His game has not slipped much, if at all, so I'm really no sure why you think Wade is better.

As far as the defense goes, the biggest problem Wade has is that he's 6-4. That is small for a shooting guard so bigger players can take advantage of him. Kobe is 6-7 and can even guard small forwards if need be.

The comparison really isn't even close.
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written by Anal_Statistics, November 09, 2009
Why are your arguments based on statistics and not the overall skillset? When we are looking at categories like skillset, footwork and post game Kobe Bryant, thus far is unmatched. Why? Because he continues to improve his game year after year and learn from the best ALA Hakeem. This isn't just some opinion, Kobe hit the 40 point mark in 3 of the 7 games this season and he's showing no sign of slowing down.
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written by LakerPete, November 09, 2009
In terms of Kobe's defense, I'll let Erik Spoelstra give his opinion on the matter, after Kobe guarded Wade last January.

"Bryant was amazing. We have not seen denials like that all year long and usually for somebody that is just playing on one side of the court, but then we go to the other side of the court and he has created a lot of their offense on the other end."

When asked who the best perimeter defender in the league is, NBA GMs responded that it was Kobe, to the tune of 34.5%

Wade did not receive a vote.

You are entitled to your opinion regarding Wade's defense, but you're in the minority, even amongst those who are paid to evaluate NBA talent.



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written by Boyd33, November 10, 2009
Laker Fan,

Come down off the ledge. By no means am I saying that Dwayne Wade is a better player ALL TIME than Kobe, just that he's better now.

In response to your comments:

Jay in IE said:
"Your whole basis for Kobe being in "decline" has been disproven this year to this point. His free throws are up, his threes down, and he is dominating opponents within the team's scheme. Other players are involved and getting points because of his dominance on the box. It is a short sample of games, but to this point in the season Kobe is not only the best SG, but the best player period. It's a long season, and this could change, but maybe you wrote this before the season began? Are you paying attention?"

Of course I'm paying attention, don't insult me. Kobe is off to a great start and will, I'm sure, have a terrific season. That being said, I stick by my predictions, but will be happy to eat crow if wrong by season's end.

Dmills said:
"I disagree about switching Wade for Kobe. This is not NBA 2k10. You can't just plug and play guy's into any team and expect X result. And furthermore Kobe has led some awful teams into the playoffs, in the WESTERN conference no less."
"Oh and by the way, Kobe is many times the man defender that Wade is. It's not even close. Ask Lebron about it."
"I'll give you off the ball, but you believe that Dwade is a superior on ball man defender then Bean?"

Feel free to disagree. I believe that if Wade were on the Lakers they would win 70 games. It has nothing to do with video games. If LeBron were on the Lakers, I wouldn't even want to imagine what they would be capable of.
I think Wade gives a more consistent effort than Bryant, on ball and off, is a more disruptive force on the defensive end (by far), and that means more over the length of the season.

Jang said:
"I'd like to know what you're basing these presumptions on, with regards to Wade being a better man defender than Kobe? Please do not state statistics as your rebuttal because great notable man/perimeter defenders such as Michael Cooper, Joe Dumars, Bruce Bowen, Doug Christie, Tayshaun Prince, etc. did not have great stats to show for their superior perimeter defensive abilities.
Coaches, who are vastly knowledgeble in the field of basketball (moreso than you and I will ever know), write-in the ballots for the all-defensive team. Last time I checked, Kobe was written in all but one year over Wade."
"I'd also like to mention that the only statistical category that Wade currently has over Kobe are blocks and assists...and that includes fg%, 3pt%, and ft%. Now who should be number 1 (please don't say Wade, it ain't even close)? smilies/wink.gif"

I'm basing my opinions on part on statistics and partly on personal viewing and analysis. Stats are not everything, but they ARE something.

I am by no means more knowledgeable about hoops than NBA coaches, but (1) The coaches' voting tends to be more focused on high-profile stars, and (2) there seems to be a significant lag time between accomplishment and recognition -- for one obvious example, Boston's Rajon Rondo wasn't an All-Defense pick either of the past two years and should have been.

And let's not talk about GM's as smart basketball men. You could do a better job than half of them at evaluating talent.

As to your second point, again, the season is young.

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written by Boyd33, November 10, 2009
..., said:
"Kobe's D is better or at the very least about the same as Wade's. Kobe is 2nd in the league in steals so far, and should stay at the top for the season. He is also averaging more rebounds than Wade, but that will go down as Gasol and Bynum get back. Still shows you a sample of what he is capable of. That's just on the defensive end. Kobe's offense is also better or the very least equal than Wade's. We have season all season long what he is doing to people dont in the post. He is unstoppable down there. Doubt any guard can he come close to what he does down there. Kobe's Mid-range game is better. Kobe's 3-point game better. Only thing Wade might be better at is driving and getting fouls. But even Kobe is doing that this year. He has 1 less attempt than Wade, and is shooting a better percentage, and which he does every year. Wade would not fit into the triangle as well as Kobe does. MJ, Magic and Kobe are the only two guards ever that could dominate from the triangle. They could all operate at in the post and give the dominant post player the triangle needs. Wade's post up game isn't anywhere close to Kobe's. In the end, Kobe is still the best guard in the league, and if it wasn't for the level of talent needed to win a championship nowadays, he would still be tearing up every guard out there. Even Wade said Kobe was still the best!!!"

You point out the one mini-error that I made in my writing, and that is saying that "it ain't even close." It is close. Again, for one possession, Bryant may even be superior, but over the long course of a season, Wade is more energetic and tries harder on D. He produces more and I hate to keep putting in stats, but his blocks are higher, steals are higher, adjusted +/- is better. There isn't a defensive stat where Kobe was better than Wade last year, which I predict will only continue this year as Kobe's physical skills diminish and Wade enters his prime years. And to point out an error of yours, Magic never played in the triangle.

Jay in IE wrote:
"Well if you wrote this yesterday, I think you are ignoring facts. Also, Kobe's D has been better than Wade's, and is at least equal to this point. His offense is miles ahead of anyone else in the league today, and equal or better than anyone who has ever played. I like Wade a lot, don't get me wrong, but just disagree with this opinion piece."

You can disagree, but don't tell me I'm ignoring the facts, please. Here are the FACTS:

Last year:
FG% Wade 49.1 Kobe 46.3
FT% Wade 76.5 Kobe 85.6
Pts/40 minutes Wade 31.3 Kobe 29.7
Reb/40 minutes Wade 5.2 Kobe 5.8
Ast/40 minutes Wade 7.7 Kobe 5.4
True Shooting Percentage: Wade 57.4 Kobe 56.1
Ast ratio: Wade 20.0 Kobe 15.5
Turnover Ratio: Wade 9.3 Kobe 8.2
Usage Rate: Wade 34.1 Kobe 30.2
Rebound Rate: Wade 7.8 Kobe 9.0
PER: Wade 30.46 Kobe 24.46

Statistically, Wade isn't just better, he is MUCH better than Kobe. These are the FACTS. Now, you want me to look at the intangibles, which are not facts, but opinions. You want me to see that Kobe is better at the end of games. (by the FACTS he is about the same as Wade, by the way. Look up 82games.com if you don't believe me.)

Yes, in the 9 games this year, Kobe has been better, but we'll see what happens with the rest of the year. And to put Kobe above or even close to equal to Michael Jordan is, simply put, mentally retarded.

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written by Boyd33, November 10, 2009
CVD2312 said:
"Look, I hate Kobe as much as anyone. I'm a Blazer fan. But as much as I hate to say it, Kobe is most likely one of the top-10 best players of all-time. His game has not slipped much, if at all, so I'm really no sure why you think Wade is better.

As far as the defense goes, the biggest problem Wade has is that he's 6-4. That is small for a shooting guard so bigger players can take advantage of him. Kobe is 6-7 and can even guard small forwards if need be.
The comparison really isn't even close."

I never said Wade was better all-time than Kobe, just last season and this season. Again, name someone who has taken advantage of Wade on the defensive end and we'll have a discussion. Wade is athletically a freak of nature and usually guards the opposing teams best player be it a 2 or a 3, just like Kobe does, even at 6-4.

Anal_Statistics said:
"Why are your arguments based on statistics and not the overall skillset? When we are looking at categories like skillset, footwork and post game Kobe Bryant, thus far is unmatched. Why? Because he continues to improve his game year after year and learn from the best ALA Hakeem. This isn't just some opinion, Kobe hit the 40 point mark in 3 of the 7 games this season and he's showing no sign of slowing down."

I'm not basing everything on statistics, but it seems that the Kobe defenders just want to completely ignore the stats, which I'm not willing to do. Statistics give you a tangible measurement of a players output, and if taken and used in a holistic look at the game, can be very helpful in understanding what a player does.
Is Kobe Bryant's footwork better than Wade's? Arguable. Wade is a master of splitting the double team on the pick and roll. Kobe's post game is better, but Wade is better at getting to and finishing around the basket. Kobe is a better rebounder, Wade is a better passer. Kobe turns the ball over slightly less, although Wade is responsible for running the point much more than Kobe is.
Kobe isn't improving, by the way, he's slowing down. Now, he is such a smart player that he has, and I suspect will continue to, use his basketball IQ to learn new, more efficient ways to attack the defense, that rely less on athleticism, but to say he's better than he was several years ago denies common sense.
And again, yes, he's off to a terrific start, but the season is long, long, long.

LakerPete said:
"in terms of Kobe's defense, I'll let Erik Spoelstra give his opinion on the matter, after Kobe guarded Wade last January.

"Bryant was amazing. We have not seen denials like that all year long and usually for somebody that is just playing on one side of the court, but then we go to the other side of the court and he has created a lot of their offense on the other end."

When asked who the best perimeter defender in the league is, NBA GMs responded that it was Kobe, to the tune of 34.5%

Wade did not receive a vote.

You are entitled to your opinion regarding Wade's defense, but you're in the minority, even amongst those who are paid to evaluate NBA talent."

Did Eric Spoelstra say that Kobe is a better defender than Wade there? Hmmm. I'm not sure.
Look, I'm not saying Kobe isn't a great defender, I just don't think he's at Wade level at this point in their respective careers.

And again, plenty of GM's don't know much about hoops, in my opinion. I may be in the minority, but that doesn't mean I'll be wrong at the end of the season.

Please, keep leaving comments, whether you agree or disagree.






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written by LakerPete, November 10, 2009
No, Spoelstra didn't explicitly state that Kobe was a better defender. He did say, however, that it was the best ball denial he's seen from anyone all year long, and that is not normally a strength of Wade's.

As for your point about a poster here being as capable of evaluating talent as half of the NBA GMs, that's the height of arrogance and ignorance. There's no reason for me to come back to this blog after that.
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written by JOe Shmoe, November 10, 2009
This is some of the most biased hate against Kobe...It kills you dosent it Hater? hahaha...Funny how ever year 90% of all GM's say KObe is the best shooting gaurd in the NBA but ya know you know better rrrrright? hahah
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written by Boyd33, November 10, 2009
I don't understand how I'm hating because I put a guy 2nd in the league? That's just insane. All I do is say how great Kobe is, and that's hate. You want to talk about arrogance, how DARE anyone think Kobe isn't the greatest of all time.

LakerPete
"As for your point about a poster here being as capable of evaluating talent as half of the NBA GMs, that's the height of arrogance and ignorance. There's no reason for me to come back to this blog after that."

I hope you do come back to the blog, but if you don't, I'll understand. My point is that GM's aren't always right. In fact, many of them are frequently quite wrong. I honestly think that many people could do a better job than many GM's. See, many GM's aren't qualified to be GM's. Many of them lack common sense. Many of them get jobs because they were good players, or friends of the owners.

If you think that's ignorant, check out the track records of the leagues GM's and see the botched picks, bad trades, poor salary cap management, bad free agent pickups of most GM's, even the "good" ones like Joe Dumars.

Just sayin'
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written by with-malice, November 10, 2009
Firstly, I think some of the reactions are going a bit overboard. So the guy has Kobe 2nd... I think we could chill a bit - everyone's entitled to be wrong.

Boyd - the very fact that you are getting a wide range of guys from different teams saying "Ummm... nuh-uh." should be a hint as to how far off the mark you are with this.
Wade at the Lakers wins 70 games... really? I'd put them probably low 60s. With Kobe there I think they can get 65-67.
Kobe's not even close on D to Wade? Seriously Boyd, that's a pretty amazing statement. Wade doesn't "try harder" on D, he just takes more chances, as playing with Miami allows him to do. Bryant doesn't take as many - tho' has with Gasol/Bynum out, and look what we're seeing as a result - within the Lakers he doesn't need to.
All things equal, Bryant's more versatile at both ends of the floor... more dangerous at crunch time... and more likely to line-up on the opposition's best swing-man than Wade.

Most people who do this for a living would disagree...
And therein lies a faux pas on your part when you deride GMs' talent evaluation. At the end of the day, if your job was on the line to win a game - who do you pick? Kobe or Wade...
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written by boyd33, November 11, 2009
At this point, I would choose Wade. He's a better player than Kobe. Whereas Kobe rode Shaq's coattails to 3 championships, Wade actually dragged his fat ass to one.

Like I said, this thought that Kobe is by far the best player at the end of games is overrated. Check out 82games.com and you'll see that although Kobe scores the most in the last 5 minutes of close games, he shoots a lower percentage than Wade or Lebron, gets to the free throw line less, has fewer rebounds and assists, and less steals and blocks.

But again, what do I know?
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written by NB213, November 11, 2009
There is NO WAY D-Wade should be ranked higher than Kobe. I'm sorry but I do not think that Wade on a Laker team will have that team winning the very same. Kobe brings a different mentality to the Laker. His killer instinct motivates guys.

If you look at Laker games, you'll see how many times Kobe gets bumped and NEVER get the calls. The numbers ain't all, you have to look beyond it. There is no way D-Wade has surpassed Kobe and he is 2nd behind Kobe but still nowhere near.

If you're such a thinker then you should dig deep and see that Kobe is on a stacked team and still putting up almost identical numbers to D-Wade on a weak team. What's that telling you? Simply that 24 is a beast. You brought out your numbers but how about you apply them sensibly.
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written by with-malice, November 11, 2009
"But again, what do I know?"

Calm down Boyd, you opened the door when you started insinuating that you know better than many GMs.
And in retort, I'll just quote Benjamin Disraeli...
"Lies, damned lies, and statistics."
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written by Boyd33, November 12, 2009
No need to calm down, I assure you. I didn't just insinuate that I know better than many GM's, I insinuated that half the people on this board do, and I stick to it.
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written by Smh, November 14, 2009
You put ben before ray allen?? LMAOOOOOOOO this list is horrible. and andrea plays the sf position.. i agree with wade being number 1. joe johnson shouldn't be @ 4... like really.. it's wade, kobe, roy, ray/vince, joe, ben, martin.
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written by Don (With Malice), November 14, 2009
Sorry... I don't think I can take anyone seriously who types "LMAOOOOOOOO" prior to a critique.
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written by Smh, November 14, 2009
Me because i can.... dick head. and it's amuses me how ray get slept on so much... but at the end of the day it's just our OPINION.


LMAOOOOOOOOOOOO smilies/wink.gif
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written by Don (With Malice), November 15, 2009
That's true. Except for one thing: your opinion counts for less.
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written by FromTheLou, December 05, 2009
Kobe =RINGS
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written by Don (With Malice), December 05, 2009
Hahaha... just saw that on the comment subscription.
Poignant tho', FromTheLou.
Check any NBA site right now for why Kobe>Wade.
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written by el ingeniero, January 05, 2010
kobe had not been the best in the league until MJ had been gone...
so as d-wade would not be no. 1.. until kobe will be out...

mj>kobe>dwade... that's all...
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written by Bill Collinsworth, January 07, 2010
To be honest, you can't really compare the two, their teams are just too different, if Wade was on the Lakers, he definitely would not have to be 100% every game because the Lakers are playoff contenders without kobe. The heat without wade are horrible and it forces the star to exert 100% just to make it above .500 the situation is just too different to just rely on stats or even how good a player is to make predictions like 70 games.
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written by Bill Collinsworth, January 07, 2010
Paul Pierce, also might get an honorable mention here and there. i remember in the 2008 playoffs just wincing every time he got the ball, it seemed like every freaking time he made the three.
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written by Matthew Gittelman, January 19, 2010
First of all, I agree with the fact that Wade is better than Kobe. Don't get me wrong, Kobe will definately go down as one of the greatest SG's of all time and is an AMAZING player. However, his first three NBA Championships he had, none other than, Shaq. Not that I say I agree that Kobe was dragged by Shaq, but cmon, Shaq was a monster. Also, the Championship Kobe won in '09 he had a great team: Gasol/Bynum/Odom and more. But once again, Kobe did unbelievably. So now that you have heard me say that I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING AGAINST KOBE a thousand times, I'll tell you why Wade is better. First of all, for those that say Kobe has more Rings than Wade which is true, probly don't take into consideration that Kobe's been in the NBA much longer than Wade. If you see Wade play in the '06 Championship, leading the Heat from a 2-0 loss to a 4-2 Win, you'll see why he is better. Sure he had Shaq just like Kobe, but Shaq was nothing compared to what he was on the Lakers. And Who else did Wade have? Exactly. And who does he have now? No one, except for Beasley who is getting better. Also, Wade is a more versatile player. He can drive so fast and smooth that it's almost impossible to stop him, and that leads to the foul. True, Kobe has a better long range and maybe a slightly better mid range shot, but Wade can shoot from the mid range unbelievably. Wade is also a much more able and willing passer. Not that Kobe is a ball hog, but if you watch a Heat game you will see what I mean. In the End, they are both incredible SG's. But Kobe is on a team of stars, and Wade is leading a team of rookies. The only thing I say that Kobe does better than Wade is the three point Jumper.
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written by Thomas asdasd, March 24, 2010
WHERE THE HELL IS MONTA ELLIS??????? he's like the top 7 best. he's way better then igudala.hes between igudala and manu
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written by Mystery, April 20, 2010
Why the fuck is d-wade over kobe those position should be switched and ray aleen should be 3rd.
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written by jjjjjanice, April 27, 2010
i have a question that has pondered my minmd since birth,
WHY IS KOBE SO DAMN SEXY?!
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written by Viper, May 01, 2010
D wade is the best SG
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written by Izzostheshizzo, May 04, 2010
J-Rich oughtta be 6th on this list.
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written by rondo lover69, May 06, 2010
ray allen is most definitly the best guard in the leauge even better than kobe bryant cuz kobe is gettin old
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written by heat fan 3299, May 07, 2010
Wade is the best player on the planet hes the best at everything on the heat aswell and hes much better than kobe
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written by T-Mac1, May 15, 2010
Where tracy mcgrady at. He should be about number 5 or 6
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written by jonshootin, May 17, 2010
Kobe is the best ever better than Jordan,bird, or magic. He is gonna finish with more rings than mj and he is just as clutcj. D wade isnt clise. The only reason people hate Kobe so much is people compare him to mj.
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written by jaemoney1255, May 17, 2010
dywanye wade is the best no lie my list is

Dwayne wade, Ray allen, vince carter, brandon roy, Kobe,
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written by HOV, May 19, 2010
HAHAHAHAHAHA U GUYS ARE DEBATING ABOUT A MID 20 YEAR OLD GUY WHO STILL HAS HIS SPPED AND JUMP AGAINST A GUY WHOS BEEN PLAYIN FOR 12 YEARS PLUS. HAHAHAHA. THERE SHOULDNT EVEN BE A DISCUSSION ABOUT IT JUST TELL HIM WADES BETTER, WHEN WADE REACHES 30 IT WILL BE ALLEN IVERSON ALL OVER AGAIN HAHAHAHAHA. IDIOT. PLUS JORDAN IS THE BEST BUT WHEN ITS ALL SAID AND DONE KOBE WILL BE A STEP DOWN FROM HIM AND WILL SEE WADE AND ALL THE STAT FREAKS IN THE HALL OF NOTHIN. A ROOM FILLED WITH JAMES WADE ANTHONY PAUL MGRADY. WITH A BIG POSTER SAYIN I WISH I WAS KOBE.
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written by lil k, May 23, 2010
wade is best in legue way better than kobe look at the stats
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written by lil k, May 23, 2010
smilies/grin.gif wade he better dan any body ite jit lets fade foo
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written by lil k, May 23, 2010
flash d wade mv3 spider man he so quick dats why he flash
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written by lil k, May 23, 2010
list for top ten 2010 nba players 1 lebron 2 wade 3 durrant 4 kobe 5 derrin williams 6 melo 7 dwight howard 8 amare stunamire 9 chris bosh 10 dirk nowitsky
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written by lil k, May 23, 2010
daaaaaaaawwwwwwwaaaaaayyyyyyynnnnnnnneeeeeeeeee waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaade!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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written by lil k, May 23, 2010
wades better than kobe idiot!
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written by lil k, May 23, 2010
you stupid hov i got beat u aaaaaaaaaa
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written by lil k, May 23, 2010
WADE fater than kobe better dunker better at drivig better at passing better at bein a leader better at bloks better at boards shut up he wade better
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written by lil k, May 23, 2010
WADE! wade!
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written by Joseph456, May 25, 2010
D-wade deserves to be number one he is deadly outside the premiter. He can make halfcourt shots 7/10 he is probably one of the best shooting-guards in the history of the NBA. Kobe is also amazing he could drive in and make shots under pressure but d-wade is more accurate
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written by lil j, May 27, 2010
at the beginning of all this in november everyone's answers were just dumb and Boyd33's were actually logical
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written by khyree jackson, June 09, 2010
Man i hate kobe he is a ball hog he avg. 29.8 points per game and 4 assist and 4.5 boards thats wht the king james is better cause he avg. 30.1 and 7.8 and 7.9 boards per game see the difference the best in the league lebron AKA king james
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written by aunonymous, June 22, 2010
There sure is alot of kobe dick succers in here.
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written by adadad, June 22, 2010
hahahahha you faggots, all you guys were wrong. you guys are all fucking retarded. learn some shit about basketball you guys are all fucking dipshits lmao. celtics suck dick. fucking pussy ass faggot
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written by right, June 22, 2010
how could you say someones dick sucking just because they like a certain player. that means there are d-wade dick suckers, lebron dick-suckers,etc. aunonymous you're a fucking retard. and learn how to fucking spell anonymous right you redneck dumbass prick.
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written by Joshua Cagle, July 31, 2010
I am huge Blazers fan and I think that Roy is a premier shooting guard in the league. The difference between him and Dwayne and Kobe is that Roy is not extremely athletic. He is highly unselfish either. He doesn't "take over a game". He needs excellent role players to help finish off a game. I am not sure about him being an MVP at some point but he could win a title if they found the right strategy. Portland has one of the best coaches in the league, so it is not out of the question. He is a great player, his lack of athleticism is not necessarily a detrimite to his team either. There are other attributes that he excels in.
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written by mr. melo, August 03, 2010
10.eric gordan
9.mayo
8.redd
7.roy
6.wade
5.kobe
4.iggy
3.richerson
2.ginobili
1.tyreke evans babysmilies/cheesy.gif
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written by Don (With Malice), August 03, 2010
Anyone who places Andre Iguodala, (I'm assuming) Quentin Richardson, Manu Ginobli and Tyreke Evans above Kobe Bryant and Dwyane Wade - has no place on a basketball site.
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written by Michael Jordan, August 05, 2010
Kobe's GOAT
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written by nhel, August 08, 2010
damn.,!!!!!! i hate u!!
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written by nhel, August 08, 2010
oww,,!! gosh.. i made it .. actually i realize im the num.1
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written by LiamRB, August 08, 2010
I'm guessing your a celtic fan? Or just hate the Lakers
I'm a celtic fan, but can still admit Kobe is the best. +Ray Allen, he is not no.10 he's higher. But that may be me being biased
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written by Alex2504, August 18, 2010
I can't believe I'm responding to this stupid list, but this is one of the most ridiculous ranking i ever saw. To put D wade a head of Kobe would be like putting Dominique Wilkins ahead of Michael Jordan. At least Wilkins was a better athlete than Jordan. D wade is a great player. Definately top 5 in the league, but clearly below kobe, durant, and james. To compare numbers of a guy who over the past 7 years been losing in the first round(with the exception of one season when the heat were a good team and won the title)with Kobe who has been to 3 straight finals winning two in the process is childish. D Wade could average 50 a game it would not equal to Kobe's 25 points and winning. Kobe could score 60 but the lakers will lose. it's about winning games. Not about putting up numbers. That's why C billips is a much better player than Allen Iverson but the casual fan thinks differently. Kobe is by far the best player in the NBA. He does need another title to match Jordan. When he does so next year. (As a knick fan who saw Jordan torch my team With help from the officials who were clearly instructed by David Stern to make sure there is no doubt Jordan looks superior to everyone else to grow the interest in the league)most people will start looking at Kobe as possibly the greatest player ever.
I think kobe is a flawless player. He is a much better defender than Jordan was (which is half the game)
and a much better long distance shooter(both straight up three and off balance three). he has no weaknesses to his game. Kobe is at a league of his own. To disect numbers to prove differently is at the least misleading and at the worst meaningless. It's about winning and making shots in the 4th quarter when the game is on the line.Wilkins always outscored Bird, but larry bird made the big plays to win the games. I bet when Jordan played another player had better numbers as well. Means nothing. Kobe is in a league of his own. durant is great and so are D Wade and LJ, but Kobe is still a couple of steps above them all. To put up big numbers on a mediocre team like the heat has been over the past 7 years (excluding the year they won the title). Kobe is actually a better player now than he was when he had better numbers. That's why the Lakers went to 3 finals winning 2 titles and D wade lost in the first round. He could average 50 points per game. it's easier than to average 25 and win. If you argue against it you just don't understand the difference between losing and winning.period.
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written by I. Stewart, August 19, 2010
kobe's way better than dwade who needs help to make it out of the first round of the playoffs, plus dwade gives up on games sometimes just like lbj did(hopefully not this year) but kobe's way better
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written by Klinton Brown, August 19, 2010
You really went out on a limb with this 1 & im probably late sending this, but honestly I've been telling my friends 4 years not including the past two that Wade & LB is closing in fast. If u take away championships& go by a players overall stats, & the situation they're in. Kobe had 4 players that r or had been allstars& I don't have to tell u who Wade had. When a team has to gameplan 4 1guy that guy has to bring his A+ game every night , where w/the Lakers u have to game plan 4 the whole startn 5 plus the bench, cuz in all honesty the lakers r a playoff team w/o Kobe whereas the Heat would be lucky to win 20 games w/o Wade. Have to go w/u on this 1 Boyd33 even though the whole world disagrees lol.
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written by Don (with-malice.com), August 19, 2010
The level of stupidity in the comments here is overwhelming.
I can veritably smell the idiocy wafting off the computer screen.

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written by Cliff Wagner, August 26, 2010
What is with D-Wade at number 1. Kobe has 5 rings D-Wade has 1 and Kobe is a better overall player than Wade...
and I'm a Celtics fan! also Ray Allen should be higher.

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